Q. Can one realise the Atma and merge, as You say, in the
Pranava with this material body composed of the five elements? Can
the Atma be isolated from the body? How is that done?
A. Man can, by Dhyana and other disciplines, by the recital of the
Pranava manthra, discover the Atma and isolate it from the body.
It is something like getting butter from curds, oil from sesame,
water from the sub-soil, fire from wood. Churnig, squeezing,
crushing, boring, turning - these processes are needed, that is
all. What happens is the separation of the Atma from the body, the
disappearance of the belief that the body is the Atma or the Self.
Q. Swami! Many elders and sages say that we should visualise
the Jeevatma as Paramatma, that we should cultivate that feeling,
that conviction. How is that possible?
A. Why do you think it is difficult? Is it not easier to speak the
truth, than to speak falsehood? You are now declaring a falsehood
as true and so all kinds of difficulties arise; accept the truth
that the Jeevatma and Paramatma are the same; then things become
easy. First, recognise the Atma, the "Jeevatma" unrelated to the
body; you can do this by Dhyana, etc. As scent is separated from
flowers, sugar from cane, gold from rock, thus separate the Atma
from the physical body. Then by means of Nidhidhyasana, etc.
single-pointed reflection and meditation, you can visualise the
Jeevatma as one with Paramatma. That is the consummation of
Thapas, the final Nirvana.
Q. What exactly is Thapas, Swami?
A. It means the end of the activities of the senses; one must be
the master of all of them. There should be no trace of craving or
appetite. It involves effort to attain Brahmam, incessant yearning
for that end; it must be expressed through moderate food and
sleep: it means agony to realise the Principle. Such Thapas is
called Sathwic.
Q. What then is Rajasic Thapas?
A. Those who simply starve the body and make it weak without
curbing the senses and controlling the emotions are doing only
Rajasic Thapas. They do not study or meditate upon the
Atmathathwa; they lay emphasis on physical asceticism.
Q. There must be Thamasic Thapas also.
A. There is. To propitiate the Gods for favours and then, with the
favours as instruments, to desire the exploitation of the world -
that is Thamasic Thapas. Only that Thapas is proper which has as
its aim the attainment of God, the realisation of Brahmam, the
achievement of the highest Wisdom. That type of Thapas alone is
approved by the Sastras. All the rest will lead you astray, away
from the Goal. Only the Thapas approved by the Sastras deserves
that name. The others are Thamas, not Thapas. Thapas means 'heat';
the heat burns out sin and reduces all Karma to ashes.
Q. The Sastras say that the Rishis had in their Asramas things
like the Chinthamani jewel, the Kalpavriksha and also the
Kamadhenu, which gave them whatever they wished for. I cannot
understand why they should do Thapas at all. Please make this
clear to me.
A. Think about it well. Then you will know that Chinthamani is not
a jewel, nor Kalpavriksha a tree, nor Kamdhenu a cow. They are all
names for the fruits of Thapas. They are powers that automatically
accrue to a person as a result of Thapas. He realises all that he
wishes for. It is called Kalpavrikshasiddhi. When he subdues all
desire, it is called Kamadhenusiddhi. What is the
Chinthamanisiddhi? It is the stage when you have no Chintha or
worry or mental agitation, a stage when all sorrow is kept afar.
When Chintha ends and the supreme Ananda is won, it is
Chinthamanisiddhi. Chintha must disappear from thought, word and
deed.
Q. They also speak of mental Thapas. What does that mean?
A. Observe control of speech, cultivate purity of feeling,
practise humility. Let your thoughts be always on the
Brahmathathwam. Then you can be said to be in mental Thapas.
Q. And physical Thapas?
A. That too is good, in its own way. Revering elders, spiritual
teachers, saints and sages and God make for purity. Non-violence,
sympathy with all beings, straightforwardness, all contribute to
physical well-being, health and wholesomeness. Mental Thapas leads
to the purity of the mind. Verbal control or Thapas leads to
purity of speech. By these three, the precious possessions of
Kamadhenu, Kalpavriksha and Chinthamani are attained. They are
attainments, not just cows, trees or jewels.
Q. Are there any who have attained Brahmathathwa and
Dharmathathwa with the help of their success in Thapas? Who are
they? Please tell me.
A. Kapilamahamuni attained Brahmathathwam, Jaiminimahamuni
attained Dharmathathwam, Narada became a Brahmarishi, Bhagiratha
brought the Ganga down, Gouthama persuaded the Godavari to flow on
earth, Valmiki realised the force of Ramamanthram and was enabled
to compose the Ramayana, Gargi was established in Brahmacharya and
Sulabha in spiritual wisdom - all through Thapas alone. Why go on
quoting examples one after the other? Through Thapas, even Brahma
and Rudra become one's collaborators.
Q. Swami! In order to reach this high stage, do you say that
birth in a high caste is necessary? Or is Sadhana of a high order
enough?
A. Caste without character is meaningless; it is just an empty
label. Sadhana, without the base of character, is like the journey
of a blind man. Morality, virtue, character - these are vital. On
the basis of these, if Sadhana is done according to the scheme
laid down for the path one has selected, then there is no doubt of
success. But you must take note of a caution that is essential.
You must not give place to sloth, simply because Jaathi or birth
is not important. Neethi or moral standards accrue according to
Jaathi also; and so, to foster them, the consciousness of Jaathi
is helpful and important. But, if through the accumulated merit of
past births, one has the treasure of goodness and virtue, then one
need not attach much importance to Jaathi. Only those who
practised Yoga in previous births and who could not complete the
process will have that type of excellence. The main thing is to
acquire the Neethi that is prescribed for the Jaathi, foster the
Jaathi with Neethi, and make yourself fit and full, with a high
status in life. For some distance on the path of Sadhana and
spirituality, both Jaathi and Neethi will help. The Gunas will be
sublimated through these two.
Q. Therefore, there must be some who, through the merit of
previous lives, have attained Godhead. Give some instances please.
A. My dear man! You should not seek to discover the source of a
river or the ancestry of a Rishi. They may be quite unimpressive.
You should be satisfied with their services. Their experience is
what is most valuable; be inspired by them, be led by them to
similar efforts. If you go in search of the beginnings, you lose
the vital core. Still, since you have raised the question, I shall
tell you. Vyasa was born of the fisherman caste, Sounaka was of
the Sunaka clan; Agasthya was born in a pot; Viswamithra was a
Kshathriya, Sootha was born in the fourth caste. In addition, we
have among those who were virtuous and good, who had their eyes
always on the moral standards of their Jaathi and Neethi, who
renounced all and stuck to the ideal of liberating themselves from
the bondage of birth and death and the illusion of physical
values: Sanjaya, Sathyakama and many more. My dear man!
Self-effort, Viveka, Thapas - these qualify man to attain the
highest status. Without purity of the inner instruments, no man,
however high his caste, can reach the Highest. If inferior copper
is added to gold, the alloy loses in value. Just as pure gold
becomes an alloy through contact with copper, the Universal, the
Viraat-rupa, gets the inferior ego added to it in this Samsara.
The Viraat-rupa becomes transformed into the Jeevi. Now, what has
to be done to get back the real gold-thathwa? Through Thapas and
Vratha, through polishing and cleansing the Buddhi, the original
stage has to be regained. You wash the feet after walking through
the mire; the mind too has to be washed of the mire of attachment
to objects. Jnana alone can burn the seeds of attachment so that
they may not sprout again. So, if a person has the treasure of
Jnana, he gets liberated easily.