Q. Swami, you say that one has to do some things; that one
should not do certain other things. How are we to know which is
which? What is the authority?
A. The Sastras are the authority. The Manusmrithi itself declares,
for example, that Varnas and Asramas are only for physical
purification and that they do not affect the gaining or losing of
the Highest.
Q. If that is so, why all this bother of Varna and Asrama, and
the rules and regulations binding them?
A. Ah, they are required until you become free from attachment or
Raga. Until then and for the sake of that, the regulations, limits
and rules have to be obeyed to the very letter. The medicine has
to be taken, so long as the illness persists. Each type of illness
has a special medicine for cure, is it not? And a different course
of diet and a special regimen. After one has got rid of the
illness, one can partake of a feast with the rest. Without
accepting this, if the well and the ill both demand the same
feast, it will lead to calamitous consequences. The Varnas and the
Asramas are as medicine prescribed for those who suffer from this
Bhavaroga, the ills of worldliness and worldly attachment. Raga
(attachment) is the roga (illness) and roga can disappear only by
regimen, strictly observed. Unless you get well you cannot be
liberated. This is the true meaning of Vedantha; he who knows
this, whatever his Asrama, attains Mukthi.
Q. Swami! Have any great souls achieved Moksha or Liberation
while in the Grihastha Asram, the House-holder stage?
A. Janaka, Aswapathi, Dileepa - these are examples of persons who
gained Moksha as Grihasthas.
Q. Swami! Is it not necessary to follow strictly the injunction
of the Sruthi, which enjoins on man the duty of completing the
Brahmacharya stage and then, after passing through the next stage
of the Grihastha, to enter Vaanaprastha and observe all the
limitations and regulations of that stage, before ultimately
taking on Sanyasa, the life of full renunciation? Or can one take
Sanyasa even without going through the other steps?
A. Yes, whenever one gets detachment from objects, one can take
Sanyasa. Unless such a chance is seized, man is bound to fall.
Whatever may be the stage or Asrama you are in, when you get full
renunciation, you can enter upon the Sanyasa stage from that very
moment. There is no iron rule that you must live through the three
earlier Asramas or stages. This too is the injunction of the
Sruthi. The reason is: such a pure soul has undergone the training
available in the other stages - the purification - in the crucible
of life in previous births. His destructive tendencies have been
rooted out and the progressive ones, the uplifting ones, have been
developed in past births themselves.
Q. How are we to know that such transformation has already been
earned in the past births? Are there any signs by which we can
discover that such and such an Asrama or stage can be skipped. If
there are, please tell me.
A. The fact that a person has no inclination for the three
Asramas, that he has no attachment or attraction towards them is a
clear sign. If detachment has developed in the past birth, the
inclination will be absent. Since awareness that the Atman alone
is real has dawned, the person is unattached to the three earlier
stages of life. When renunciation has appeared, one can give up
worldly life, even though the series have to be over-stepped. This
is approved by Sruthi. But the person who confers Sanyasa must
examine fully and convince himself that the person on whom he is
conferring it is devoid of sensual impulses and attachments.
Sanyasa should be given only to one who has no agitation in the
mind, or Vrittis as they are called; only such can be said to be
unattached. The candidate too should examine himself and see
whether his inner consciousness is free from the Gunas, dull,
active or even progressive. If it is not so free, he will not only
break the vows of Sanyasa and be outcast, but he may even break
down under the burden and meet a calamitous end.
Q. Is Sanyasa of one kind or are there different kinds?
A. There are three types of Sanyasa. They are Dehasanyasa,
Manosanyasa and Atmasanyasa.
Q. What does Dehasanyasa mean?
A. Sanyasa in appearance, so far as the outer body is concerned.
He wears the ochre robe, assumes the name, appears in the form,
but, he has no awareness of the Atma; he wanders amidst all the
objective desires clinging to external things. He is like ordinary
men, for all intents and purposes.
Q. And Manosanyasa?
A. In Manosanyasa, he gives up all decisions and desires; he has
the mind under strict control; he is not guided by impulses or
agitations; he is ever calm and collected.
Q. You mentioned Atmasanyasa as the third.
A. Here, he breaks through all thoughts about things that are
unrelated to the Atma, for he is ever immersed in the
contemplation of the true reality, "Aham Brahmaasmi". He is steady
in the consciousness of his being Atma. His Ananda is continuous,
Akhanda. This is called Amrithasanyasa. The thickest darkness can
be destroyed only by the light that emanates from the splendid
solar orb; similarly, without the splendour of Atmasanyasa,
ignorance cannot be dispersed - the encasements that hide the
heart cannot be shattered and the Atma cannot shine in its own
glory.
Q. How are these types attained? What are the signs that they
have been attained?
A. Dehasanyasa is attained by discrimination between the eternal
and the temporary, the evanescent and the everlasting. Manosanyasa
is reached by conquering the waywardness of speech, of the senses
and of the mind. Atmasanyasa is won by filling oneself with the
principles of Vedanthic thought. When these educative influences
become strong and you are well established in these virtues and
attitudes, then you can get liberated as a result of the combined
effect of these stages.
Q. Who among these are really fortunate, their lives being
spent in a worthwhile way?
A. Well, he who like the bee sucks in silence and in great bliss
the honey in the flower, who is intent on uninterruptedly tasting
the nectar of Atmic bliss; who ignores this world as but a
'scene', a Drsya; he indeed is the most fortunate; his life is the
most worth while.
Q. Then, Swami, what is it that is spoken of by the elders as
attaining Sathya, Nithya, Nirmala and Santhi? How are these -
Truth, Indestructibility, Purity and Equanimity - to be attained?
A. As I said already, he who does not attach himself to the
"scene" but who is engrossed in his own Atmic bliss; it is he who
attains Sathya, Nithya, Nirmala and Santhi. Or even if he attains
one of them it is enough; for one includes all.