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IIT Professor meets Sri Sathya Sai
Baba "The atheists wish
to say GOD IS NO WHERE, whereas, the theists wish to say GOD IS
NOW HERE. The beauty is that both state what they wish to
say by using the same words, least realizing the fact that
they are doing so, just by associating the letter with either the
word NO or with the word HERE," said Bhagavan on Sunday the 21st
January 1979 at Brindavan during an interview that He graciously
granted to a group of scientists. Who are the lucky few that
got this rare and precious opportunity to sit in the presence of
Bhagavan is not important; but what is important is: `What message
did they receive from Baba?'
To reproduce verbatim what Bhagavan said is like trying to build a
bridge across the ocean. We shall endeavour
to present what He told this group in summary form; we hope
readers of Sanathana Sarathi will benefit from it. It was
Sunday; about 15 of us gathered in the Bhajan Pandal of
Brindavan and we were asked to sit together so that we could move
en bloc if Swami gives the green signal. At about 9 AM Bhajan
started and the crisp and cool winds in Brindavan were soon
carrying the devotional music to the nooks and corners of
the world. Soon the Bhajan tempo increased and suddenly every head
turned towards the main building wherefrom, like the rising Sun,
Bhagavan made His appearance bringing joy and light to the
hundreds of devotees gathered in Brindavan.
After giving darshan to the many devotees who were waiting near
the gates of the main building, Bhagavan made His way slowly
and steadily towards the Bhajan. Soon He was standing in front of
us and enquired whether all of our party had come, and when the
answer was in the affirmative, He told one of the volunteers
to guide us to the room where the interview was to held. We
waited for some time outside the room while Baba completed His
meeting with other devotees. After sometime the room was
opened by Baba Himself and He asked us to come inside.
He addressed everyone as "Bangaroo" and He admitted us into that
room, extending to us the most affectionate welcome that we have
ever witnessed in our lifetime. All of us were overwhelmed.
With the last man in, Baba moved from the door towards His chair
and suddenly He called the name of one of us as if He had known
him for ages. Naturally the concerned person was overjoyed
and he prostrated before the Lotus Feet of Baba. Then Baba asked
the people to raise any subject they choose. Some
people put questions relating to their personal affairs and
Bhagavan answered them most affectionately. In fact Bhagavan
assured that He would meet us individually to listen to personal
matters some other time, thus suggesting that we better
concentrate during this interview on more general matters.
Of course, even after this assurance, when some of us persisted
out of genuine anxiety in asking questions about our
personal matters He did not dissuade us at all; on the
contrary He tried to comfort us by pouring love and affection.
We realized that for the Anandaswarup it is but natural to
comfort, console and protect those in distress. Baba,
however, utilized the opportunity, while answering some personal
questions, to bring home the point that one should not get
overjoyed while experiencing pleasure and get depressed while
experiencing pain. He pointed out that between two pleasures there
will be always pain and vice versa. One should
experience both pleasure and pain with equanimity. Also He
emphasized that all humans being the children of God are
inherently GOOD and Satsangh, good company, is the elixir for the
growth of goodness in a person. That is why He often
says: Do Good, See Good and Be Good. As is characteristic of Baba,
He explained the meaning of all His statements with examples from
daily life.
Continuing on the theme that human life is precious and unique and
that pleasure and pain are integral parts of life, He extolled the
virtue in being a human by saying: "Humans and animals are
equal in all respects except for the difference that Man has been
endowed with the capacity to think and reflect". He told us
that He addresses everyone as Bangaru because He knows that all
humans are as precious as Gold. But then, Gold has to be heated
and treated in order to be converted into jewelry. Man also
must undergo similar processes in order to become useful to
himself and society.
Baba stressed the importance of the quest through Sadhana for
self-realization. There are three important stages in the
process of self-realization and they can be considered in terms of
Dwaitha, Adwaitha and Visishtadwaitha. To illustrate these
three aspects He gave three different but very striking
examples. "Each of you is three persons, not one," He said.
"What you think are, What others think you are and who you
actually are". The first stage is, as Jesus said, that "I am
the servant of God". The next one is the
Visishtadwaitha stage: "I am son of God". At last the
Adwaitha stage: "I and my father are one" is reached. So too
the sadhana stages of I am in the light, the light is in me, I am
the light.
Baba explained with more examples how the endeavors of
self-realization get constrained or hindered by the growth of
attachment to the material world. He emphasized that
everyone should try- by cultivating proper methods of Sadhana- to
reduce his attachment and allow the growth of an attitude of
detachment towards worldly things. He pointed out that
attachment to worldly things is the single source of unhappiness
for the human race. Baba explained that Man, because of his
attachment to the material world, tends to get distracted from the
path of Dharma in order to amass wealth. What a beautiful
couplet He devised to condemn the blind rush of Man to amass
wealth: "Money comes and goes; Morality comes and grows," He said.
Further He said: "But still man prefers money to morality and
discipline."
Bhagavan emphasized the importance of Mauna (silence) as one of
the constituents of Sadhana for self-realization. He pointed
out that it is not Mauna if one keeps his mouth closed but has the
switch of the mind `ON'. Actually the real state of Mauna is
when you shut off the wandering mind. This is very important
because it allows one to cultivate the all important habit of
concentration. From concentration one graduates to the stage of
contemplation and finally to the stage of meditation.
At this point, one of us asked: How can one make his Bhakthi
grow? Bhagavan said Bhakti can be allowed to grow by
Sadhana and conscientious effort, like any other trait of a human
being. One can increase his Bhakthi, quantum by quantum
through disciplined behavior and attachment to God.
Then the discussion turned towards the Scientists and a question
was asked: Are we trying conscientiously to orient our educational
methods to turn out scientists who perforce should disbelieve and
deny the existence of God? Bhagavan replied that while
there appears to be that sort of a trend now-a-days, He does not
believe that there is any atheist. It is His assertion that
man may choose, for material reasons to play the role of an
atheist, but every man knows in his heart that he is the son of a
supreme father and hence he must believe in His existence. It is
becoming a fashion to call oneself a rationalist. But
science and spirituality are like the two halves of a circle and
one is incomplete without the other. Baba emphasized, by giving
Einstein as example, that an accomplished scientist will be humble
enough to accept the necessity of spirituality and the existence
of God.
At this juncture someone said: Swami I could not understand
what you have said. But in summary you seem to say Science is a
tool. If we use it with love it is good. If we use it with
ego or greed it is bad. Am I right? Baba replied that it is
right not only in the case of scientific endeavor but true in the
case of all human endeavors. In fact love is
everything and all problems of this world could only be
solved through Love. He said: "How can Peace be
established if politicians talk about Peace with bombs in their
hands, which the scientists have helped them to possess.
There are many ways through which a scientist can utilize his
knowledge for constructive purposes such as improving the health,
sanitation and nutrition of our people. Every man (be he a
scientist, an artisan, a farmer) has a role to play in
promoting the welfare of society and he can play this role
effectively if he cultivates Love towards his fellow human beings
and treats them as his brethren." Baba closed the interview,
saying: "There is only one caste and that is the caste of
humanity. There is only one religion and that is the
religion of Love".
Thus came to an end the most memorable interview with Bhagavan.
Then He distributed prasadam. We all came out wishing that
the interview had never come to an end.
-Prof. S. V. Pappu
Indian Institute of Science
As appears in Sanathana Sarathi
March, 1979
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